Ep. 10 Found in AI: How to Get Your Brand Found in AI Search

Writing for Humans vs. LLMs: What Actually Needs to Change? – Found in AI: AI Search Visibility, SEO, & GEO

Send us Fan Mail📬 You like this podcast? You’ll love the newsletter.Join the weekly The Visibility Report: subscribeIn this episode of Found in AI, Cassie Clark talks with content marketer Ben Hale about what actually changes when you start creating content for AI search — and what doesn't.Cassie and Ben talk about how audience behavior should determine which AI engines you prioritize, why distribution is becoming an increasingly important part of content strategy, and how content needs to change when it moves from your website to platforms like Reddit.They also dig into the difference between AI mentions and citations, whether getting cited is actually enough to call your strategy successful, and how marketers can test new AI search tactics without chasing every new optimization trick that comes along.In this episode:Why you shouldn't treat AI search engines as a monolithHow to decide which AI engines actually matter to your audienceWhy third-party distribution belongs in your AI search strategyWhy copying brand content directly onto Reddit doesn't workHow to create product and comparison content that's actually usefulHow content structure can affect AI citationsWhy getting cited is only a leading indicator of successThe difference between AI mentions and citationsWhat still matters about writing for humansHow to design AI search experiments with clear timelines and success criteriaWhy marketers need to be willing to abandon tactics the data says aren't working–Cassie Clark is an AI search visibility consultant and a fractional content strategist for startups and enterprise brands. If that sounds like the kind of help you're looking for, email me at cassie@cassieclarkmarketing.com. Or request your AI Search Visibility Audit: https://cassieclarkmarketing.com/ai-search-visibility-audit/Join Cassie Clark for a free live training, How to Build an AI Search Visibility Strategy, on November 5, 2026, at 1 PM ET.Learn how to identify relevant AI search opportunities, diagnose visibility gaps, establish a measurement baseline, and prioritize your next steps. Includes live Q&A.Register for free: https://cassieclarkmarketing.com/ai-search-training/ Wondering what AI search means for your business?Cassie Clark Marketing helps startups and enterprise brands understand how AI systems discover and recommend them, identify what affects their visibility, and develop executable strategies.Services include team training, AI visibility diagnosis, strategic consulting, and fractional marketing leadership.www.cassieclarkmarketing.com

1. Writing for Humans vs. LLMs: What Actually Needs to Change? 28:25
2. Google Updates Content Guidance as AI Agents Reshape Search 17:43
3. Are AI Visibility Tools Measuring the Wrong Things? 17:12
4. Google AI Mode Monitoring + Why AI Citations Don’t Equal Recommendations 12:59
5. Who’s Responsible for What AI Says About Your Brand? 20:39

In today’s episode of Found in AI, I sit down with Charlie Graham, founder and CEO of RivalSee, to unpack AI visibility optimization — or AIVO — and how AI search is reshaping the way brands show up inside ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google’s AI mode.

We cover:

• How AI engines actually source, rank, and surface brand mentions
• Why long-tail, bottom-of-funnel content is outperforming top-of-funnel in AI-driven search
• How structured data, static content, and schema impact visibility in real-time results
• The difference between being linked and being mentioned — and why most brands get it wrong
• Practical ways small teams can start experimenting with AI visibility without overhauling their entire SEO strategy

If you’ve been wondering how to adapt your content strategy for the next era of search — and make sure your brand actually shows up in AI answers — this episode is for you.

Found in AI Podcast Transcript

How to Get Your Brand Found in AI Search (with Charlie Graham of RivalSee)

Host: Cassie Clark
Guest: Charlie Graham, Founder & CEO of RivalSee

Intro

Cassie Clark:
You finally nailed your SEO strategy — and then AI search came along like, “Cute… but irrelevant.”

Welcome back to Found in AI, the show about getting your brand found in AI search. I’m your host, Cassie Clark — content strategist and CMO.

So when you ask ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini — whichever one you’re using — a question, how does it decide who gets mentioned… and who gets ghosted?

Today, I’m joined by Charlie Graham, founder of RivalSee, to talk about the next evolution of visibility — AIVO — and how to make sure your brand actually shows up.

Charlie’s Background

Charlie Graham:
I’m the founder and CEO of a company called RivalSee. We’re in the AI visibility space.

Our focus is helping you track, boost, and optimize how your brand appears in chat engines like ChatGPT, Google AI, and Perplexity. We show you how you appear for each customer segment and persona — instead of just looking at keywords.

AI search is heavily influenced by personalization and memory of the individual. It behaves completely differently from traditional search engines, and optimizing for it requires a different mindset.

Personas and Customer Segments

Cassie:
It really does behave so differently. When you’re building audience personas by customer segment, how many are you looking at? Whatever the brand has — or just one or two?

Charlie:
In our system, you can have up to 10 different personas and change them at any time. You can also create up to five customer segments — and that can grow if you’re on an enterprise plan.

The system can generate personas for you, but you can also build and edit your own. Some customers reuse the same personas over time to track changes, while others refresh them each time.

Cassie:
That’s nice and flexible.

What Is AIVO?

Cassie:
When we were scheduling this, you mentioned a new term — AIVO.

On this podcast, we’ve talked about AEO, GEO, and LLMO, but this is the first time we’ve heard AIVO. Can you describe what it means?

Charlie:
Sure. They’re all related ideas, but AIVO — AI Visibility Optimization — is a more precise way to describe what’s happening.

Traditional SEO is about optimizing for search engines. AIVO focuses on how often your brand is mentioned and surfaced inside AI systems.

GEO — Generative Engine Optimization — is another term people use, but it can overlap with geolocation. No one has fully agreed on one label yet, but the goal is clear: optimizing your visibility inside AI engines.

How AIVO Differs From Traditional SEO

Cassie:
So how would you say that differs from traditional SEO?

Charlie:
You’ll see people on LinkedIn arguing both extremes — “SEO is dead” versus “Nothing has changed.” The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Good SEO is still the foundation — it will get you far. But understanding how AI tools work behind the scenes lets you go further. There are extra layers of optimization beyond SEO that improve how you appear in AI-generated results.

So yes, great SEO still matters. But it’s not the only thing that matters anymore.

How AI Search Works Behind the Scenes

Cassie:
At a high level, what makes AI search engines operate differently from Google?

Charlie:
AI models get their data in two main ways.

First, they’re trained on information scraped from the web — but that data is often a year old by the time a model launches.

To make up for that gap, AI systems perform real-time searches when you ask a question. For example, when you query OpenAI, Claude, or Perplexity, they’ll check the model’s training data, recognize it’s outdated, and then search the web.

They essentially send out their own queries — often to Google and Bing — acting like a user. They read the top results, summarize them, and return an answer.

That process happens incredibly fast, but it means they’re reading and synthesizing — not just linking.

Cassie:
That makes so much sense. No one has explained it like that before.

Charlie:
Every AI model has its nuances, but once you understand how they read and interpret web pages, you can create content that fits better with what they’re looking for.

AI Long-Tail Queries

Cassie:
Let’s go into the weeds a little on that.

Charlie:
When AI models run those real-time searches, they don’t behave like humans. Humans search three to four words at a time — “best CRM,” for example.

ChatGPT or Perplexity might search something like, “best CRM for small business pest control agency in Oklahoma.” Those are longer, more specific phrases — sometimes 10 to 12 words.

If you can identify and optimize for these AI-driven long tails, you can get ahead. Unlike traditional SEO — where long-tail terms might make up tiny fractions of traffic — these AI phrases can repeat often across conversations. That’s where visibility opportunities live.

Keyword Usage and Strategy

Cassie:
So when writing for those long-tail phrases, how often should we actually use them?

Charlie:
The same SEO rules still apply — use them naturally and avoid stuffing.

Bing behaves a little differently than Google, so you may put slightly more emphasis there. But the core principle stays the same: quality over quantity.

The difference is in which keywords you focus on — not how often you use them.

Cassie:
Got it. So do we mix long-tail and short-tail in one strategy, or separate them out?

Charlie:
Both. You still need traditional search coverage, but you should also create content that targets these AI-focused long-tail queries.

Think of it like a portfolio — a mix of short-tail, high-volume terms and long-tail, high-intent ones.

The long tails that matter are shifting. AI systems tend to use certain canonical phrases over and over. Once you know those, build around them.

Content Structure for AI Visibility

Cassie:
What kinds of content formats or structures perform best for AI visibility?

Charlie:
It’s evolving, but fundamentals still hold: clear structure, schema markup, and accessible HTML matter.

Through our research, we found AI engines don’t load JavaScript during real-time searches. So if your content relies on APIs, embedded testimonials, or React components, AI likely isn’t reading them.

That means your content should be static and easy to parse. Google SEO allows time for full rendering, but AI search happens in seconds. It reads HTML, not scripts.

Cassie:
That’s really helpful. I’ve been using ChatGPT to generate FAQ schema in HTML, and I wasn’t sure if that mattered.

Charlie:
It does. Stick with HTML. We’ve found AI engines aren’t currently processing external JavaScript or images either. For now, text is your best bet for being read and referenced.

Cassie:
That’s wild — and kind of reassuring for those of us without time to make fancy visuals.

Mentions vs Backlinks

Cassie:
I’ve also been talking with guests about author credibility and backlinks. Traditional SEO focuses on ranking pages, but AIVO seems more about surfacing facts and sources. How should content teams adjust?

Charlie:
E-E-A-T principles — expertise, experience, authority, and trust — still matter.

But there’s an important distinction between being linked and being mentioned.

In our research, about 85% of brands mentioned in ChatGPT results aren’t linked at all. Only 15% get an actual citation. Yet users still copy those brand names and search them on Google.

That means brand mentions — not backlinks — are driving awareness in AI search. Unfortunately, Google Analytics won’t show that traffic as coming from ChatGPT. It’ll just look like organic search.

So teams need to optimize for brand mentions, not just links.

Cassie:
That’s such an important distinction — especially for tracking.

Charlie:
Exactly. On mobile, it’s even trickier. If a link does appear, it’s often tagged as “no referrer.” It’s messy data, but the takeaway is clear: don’t rely solely on link tracking to measure AI-driven visibility.

Is AIVO Necessary Right Now?

Cassie:
Given all that, do you think optimizing for AIVO is necessary right now? Or are we still too early?

Charlie:
It’s early, but it’s the best time to start.

Right now, few marketers outside SEO circles are thinking about AIVO — and that’s your advantage. It’s like the early days of SEO all over again. The sooner you start experimenting, the faster you’ll learn.

It’s not about abandoning SEO. It’s about building on it. SEO gets you into search — AIVO helps keep you visible in AI-driven discovery.

How Small Teams Can Start

Cassie:
So how can smaller teams start experimenting with this without overhauling everything?

Charlie:
Start tracking. Use a tool like RivalSee to see where you appear in AI engines and which queries you show up for.

Even imperfect tracking gives you a valuable signal. From there, make small adjustments — optimize for long-tail phrasing, test content at the bottom of the funnel, and emphasize brand mentions.

We’ve seen clients double or triple their AI visibility just by doing that.

Cassie:
That aligns perfectly with what Usama Khan and I discussed — bottom-of-funnel content is performing better than ever.

Where to Start From Scratch

Cassie:
Last question: if you were building a strategy from scratch, would you still start with SEO?

Charlie:
Absolutely. SEO is still the foundation.

If you’re not ranking in the top 10 results on Google or Bing, you won’t appear in AI results either. But once that foundation is solid, dedicate part of your resources to AIVO. Learn how AI engines interpret content and start optimizing for that layer, too.

It’s the next evolution — not a replacement.

Outro

Cassie:
So here’s your challenge for the week.

Open ChatGPT, Perplexity, or Google’s AI mode and type in a question your ideal customer would ask.

Do you show up?

If not, you’ve got some work to do.

Big thanks to Charlie Graham from RivalSee for breaking down the science behind AI visibility.

As always, if you need help with your content strategy, connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website at cassieclarkmarketing.com.

Thanks for listening to Found in AI. I’ll see you next episode.

And if you want insights like this in your inbox, subscribe to my newsletter.

If we haven’t met yet….

Hi, I’m Cassie, a fractional content strategist for early-stage startups who focuses on AI search optimization.

I build content programs that connect strategy with execution: clear positioning,  systems, and content that actually drives revenue. If you’re ready to stop guessing and start growing, here’s how we can work together.