Found in AI Ep. 9: Are Backlinks Dead? What AI Search Actually Cares About
Google Is Moving From AI Search to AI Agents – Found in AI: AI Search Visibility, SEO, & GEO
In today’s episode of Found in AI, I sit down with Nathaniel Miller, Head of Marketing at Ashbrook Technologies and founder of his own growth agency, to unpack one of the biggest questions in AI visibility right now — do brand mentions matter more than backlinks?
We cover:
- Why backlinks and brand mentions both influence AI search visibility — and when one matters more than the other
- How digital PR, social presence, and relationship-building shape off-page SEO in the AI era
- The decline of Reddit’s influence and what might come next for community-based authority signals
- How marketers can approach AI search (AEO, GEO) without abandoning SEO fundamentals
- The tools and tactics Nathaniel recommends, including Qwoted and intentional backlink outreach
If you’ve been wondering how to adapt your link-building and PR strategy for AI-driven search — and how to earn visibility that actually lasts — this episode is for you.
📌 Mentioned in this episode:
- Digital PR and backlink strategies
- Off-page SEO for AI visibility
- Reddit and community-based authority signals
- Quoted (modern HARO alternative)
- AI search and visibility metrics
Transcript: Are Backlinks Dead?
Cassie Clark:
Today on Found in AI, we’re digging into one of the biggest questions in marketing right now: do brand mentions matter more than backlinks?
If you remember a few weeks ago, I sat down with Chris Pantelli of Linkify to talk about how to get your digital PR strategy up and running in the age of AI search. If you haven’t listened to that episode, I highly recommend going back to it.
Today, I’m talking with Nathaniel Miller, Head of Marketing at Ashbrook Technologies and founder of his own growth agency. We’re unpacking whether we should be chasing mentions or backlinks for visibility and authority in 2025.
We talk about everything from Reddit’s decline—because, let’s be honest, we talk about Reddit on every episode—to how digital PR, social presence, and smart backlinks all work together to shape your brand’s reach in AI search.
Here’s part of that conversation.
Cassie: Tell me about what you do—who you are and all the good things.
Nathaniel:
I’m Nathaniel Miller, Head of Marketing for a holding company called Ashbrook Technologies. I’m also building my own growth agency, where I focus on all things growth—outbound, content, LinkedIn, paid media—and then measuring the results so we can prove what’s really working.
Cassie:
AI search and visibility across platforms is becoming a big thing for you, right?
Nathaniel:
It is—more and more every day.
Cassie:
Are your clients asking about it directly, or is it still one of those “maybe we should pay attention” kind of topics?
Nathaniel:
A few have asked, but honestly, being on LinkedIn, you’re immersed in it. You see it constantly, so I think you have to preemptively strike—start learning it before you’re asked—so you don’t end up looking like a deer in the headlights when the question comes.
Cassie:
Totally. In a recent episode, I talked with Chris Pantelli about how PR is driving visibility in AEO. But today, I want to dig into what happens next. Once you’ve earned that coverage, what actually matters for search visibility? Is it the brand mention, or is it the backlink?
Nathaniel:
Honestly, it’s both.
I saw a post today from a company called Noble—they’ve started automating the process of getting brand mentions, which makes sense because that’s one of the biggest drivers of visibility right now. Automating it makes it so much easier than doing it manually.
But really, both matter. The companies ranking highest across AI platforms tend to be the ones with both strong authority and strong backlink profiles. So yes—mentions help, but backlinks still carry real weight.
And we’ve seen interesting shifts. Reddit, for example, has dropped about 40% in visibility recently, which is huge. Whether that bounces back or not, who knows—but it shows how fragile those trends can be.
Cassie:
That’s been fascinating to watch, because almost every episode lately, we’ve talked about Reddit being a key visibility driver. Now I’m curious—what do you think is next?
Nathaniel:
Honestly, I think it goes back to the basics.
If everyone’s chasing the same new platform—Reddit, for example—it eventually becomes saturated and loses value. The brands that win are the ones that stay consistent: building authority, publishing helpful content, earning backlinks, and staying visible long term.
Sure, you can experiment with trends, but don’t put all your time there. Some businesses have spent the last four months going all-in on Reddit and now have nothing else driving visibility.
Cassie:
Right. And when you talk about brand mentions, how do you define that? Do you see it as something separate from traditional link building?
Nathaniel:
Not really. From my perspective, it’s the same thing—it’s all about being referenced by authoritative sources. Whether that’s through a backlink or just a mention in a trusted article, both help.
Cassie:
So whether we’re talking about SEO or AEO or GEO—whatever acronym we’re using—do you think all mentions are created equal? Or does context, like being cited in an authoritative or semantically related source, matter more?
Nathaniel:
Context absolutely matters.
A backlink from a massive site that has nothing to do with your industry doesn’t help much. It’s better to get half the traffic from a smaller, highly relevant site that actually sends engaged visitors.
If you’re not getting qualified traffic from that link, it’s basically a logo slap. The real value is in relevance and authority—not just size.
Cassie:
Some experts I’ve talked to say backlinks might not even be necessary anymore—that a contextual brand mention could be enough. What do you think?
Nathaniel:
It depends.
If you can get the link, always take the link. But if your only option is a mention—take it. It’s still better than nothing. Backlinks will always be more valuable if you can get them, but mentions do have a role in AI visibility.
Cassie:
So still go for the link when you can.
Nathaniel:
Always. I tell people this all the time—link building is my least favorite SEO task, but it’s one of the most important. I’ll outsource it when possible, but you can’t skip it.
Cassie:
Do you think link-building strategies will change because of AI search?
Nathaniel:
I don’t think they’ll change drastically. What I do think is that intentionality will matter more. The quality and relevance of your backlinks will become even more important than quantity.
And honestly, the process is still the same—it’s relationship building. Networking on LinkedIn, attending events, sharing helpful content—it’s about creating connections. Once people know you, they’ll naturally reach out when they’re creating new content.
I’ve had great results with Quoted—that’s Q-W-O-T-E-D—it’s kind of like the new HARO. I’ve had much more success with it than the original.
Cassie:
Same here! I use Quoted a lot to find expert sources for client articles. Shout out to them—they’re great.
Do you think we’ll see a future where building your brand across multiple platforms—YouTube, podcasts, LinkedIn—becomes the new off-page SEO?
Nathaniel:
Maybe.
Right now, AI engines are crawling everything—social platforms, podcasts, YouTube, even trademark data and books. If that continues without new regulation, then yes, all of it becomes part of your off-page SEO footprint.
Cassie:
Exactly. And even if it didn’t, that’s just smart marketing. Your audience is everywhere, so your brand should be too.
Nathaniel:
For sure. I think every brand should have at least some presence across channels. You don’t have to go all-in everywhere—just show up where your audience spends the most time.
For B2B, that’s still LinkedIn. You get better ROI—both organic and paid—than on any other platform.
Cassie:
I saw someone on X (I still want to call it Twitter) say, “TikTok and Instagram don’t work for B2B,” and I thought, well yeah—because LinkedIn is where your buyers actually are.
If a client has limited bandwidth, would you tell them to prioritize digital PR for mentions, or technical outreach for backlinks?
Nathaniel:
I’d start with digital PR. It’s faster and often gets you results sooner.
I actually had a client recently where we built their Google Search Console, optimized their pages—did everything right—and still weren’t ranking. We finally focused on building backlinks, even general ones, and within a week we jumped from page 15 to page 1.
So yeah, digital PR is the fastest way to start building momentum, and once you’ve got some authority, then you can layer in more technical link-building.
Cassie:
That makes sense. There’s still so much conflicting information out there about AI visibility. Some people say AI engines pull only the top 10 links from Google—others say they don’t use Google rankings at all.
Either way, getting your content on page one is still smart, because user behavior hasn’t completely shifted away from Google.
Nathaniel:
Exactly. Inside the software and tech world, it feels like everyone’s using AI search—but step outside of that bubble, and plenty of people still don’t even know what ChatGPT is.
AI search isn’t replacing Google anytime soon. Most people are still using it daily, whether they admit it or not.
Cassie:
Totally. Maybe OpenAI has 800 million users, which is wild—but most of them are probably still Googling things too.
Nathaniel:
Exactly. And it’s worth asking: are people searching in AI engines or researching?
For most, it’s the latter. Google is still where the active, intent-driven searches happen. AI tools are being used more for research, validation, and brainstorming.
Cassie:
Exactly. Sometimes ChatGPT makes me sound like a genius—and sometimes it makes my bad ideas sound like good ones!
So, one last question. If we had to give marketers one piece of advice for 2025, what’s the real currency of authority—links, mentions, or something else?
Nathaniel:
Links—and quality content.
If your content isn’t great, no number of backlinks will help. But if you have amazing content and no links, no one will find it. You need both.
Start with customer research—understand what your audience cares about, build content that solves those problems, and then earn backlinks to that content. That’s the formula.
Cassie (wrap-up):
So what should marketers actually do with all of this?
Nathaniel’s advice was simple but solid:
- Focus on quality backlinks—they still matter more than ever.
- Create content worth linking to—authority and quality go hand in hand.
- Treat link-building as relationship-building, whether that’s through PR, Quoted, or your network.
- And don’t abandon the basics—SEO fundamentals are still the backbone of AI visibility.
If you’re building your 2025 content strategy—or looking ahead to 2026—start with audience research, create valuable content around it, and then earn those backlinks and mentions.
As always, if you need help getting your content strategy off the ground, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn or at cassieclarkmarketing.com.
That’s it for today’s episode. I’m so grateful for everyone who’s been tuning in, sharing the show, and pitching guest ideas. When I started Found in AI back on August 11, I didn’t know we’d make it this far—and now we’re almost at Episode 10.
Next week, we’re going deeper—not into backlinks or mentions, but into how AI search engines actually think.
I’ll be joined by Charlie Graham from RivalSee to break down how systems like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini process information compared to Google or Bing—and what that means for content, visibility, and measurement.
Thanks for tuning in. I’ll see you next week.
subscribe to my newsletter to get insights like this straight in your inbox
